Wednesday, August 20, 2008

Judge For Yourself


Let's get to the basics. An excellent resource for those who wish to understand or refute missionary claims and the truth of Judaism is Jews for Judaism. I present their article as it is essential for those who wish to comprehend the truth.

Judge for yourself: Did Jesus fulfill ALL these criteria?

The Jewish tradition of "The Messiah" has its foundation in numerous biblical references, and understands "The Messiah" to be a human being - without any overtone of deity or divinity - who will bring about certain changes in the world and fulfill certain criteria before he can be acknowledged as "The Messiah".

First of all, he must be Jewish - "...you may appoint a king over you, whom the L-rd your G-d shall choose: one from among your brethren shall you set as king over you." (Deuteronomy 17:15)

He must be a member of the tribe of Judah - "The staff shall not depart from Judah, nor the sceptre from between his feet..." (Genesis 49:10)

To be a member of the tribe of Judah, the person must have a biological father who is a member of the tribe of Judah.

He must be a direct male descendant of King David and King Solomon, his son - "And when your days (David) are fulfilled, and you shall sleep with your fathers, I will set up your seed after you, who shall issue from your bowels, and I will establish his kingdom. He shall build a house for my name, and I will make firm the throne of his kingdom forever..." (2 Samuel 7:12 - 13)

The genealogy of the New Testament is inconsistent. While it gives two accounts of the genealogy of Joseph, it states clearly that he is not the biological father of Jesus. One of the genealogies is through Nathan and not Solomon altogether!

He must gather the Jewish people from exile and return them to Israel -"And he shall set up a banner for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth." (Isaiah 11:12)

Are all Jews living in Israel? Have all Jews EVER lived in Israel since the time of Jesus?

He must rebuild the Temple in Jerusalem - "...and I will set my sanctuary in their midst forever and my tabernacle shall be with them.." (Ezekiel 37:26 - 27)

At last check, there is NO Temple in Jerusalem. And worse, it was shortly after Jesus died that the Temple was DESTROYED! Just the opposite of this prophecy!

He will rule at a time of world-wide peace - "...they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks; nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war anymore." (Micah 4:3)

Have you seen a newspaper lately? Are we living in a state of complete world peace? Has there ever been peace since the time of Jesus?

He will rule at a time when the Jewish people will observe G-d's commandments - "My servant David shall be king over them; and they shall all have one shepherd. They shall follow My ordinances and be careful to observe My statutes." (Ezekiel 37:24)

The Torah is the Jewish guide to life, and its commandments are the ones referred to here. Do all Jews observe all the commandments? Christianity, in fact, often discourages observance of the commandments in Torah, in complete opposition to this prophecy.

He will rule at a time when all people will come to acknowledge and serve one G-d - "And it shall come to pass that from one new moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before Me, says the L-rd" (Isaiah 66:23)

There are still millions if not billions of people in the world today who adhere to paganistic and polytheistic religions. It is clear that we have not yet seen this period of human history unfold.

All of these criteria are best stated in the book of Ezekiel Chapter 37 verses 24-28:

And David my servant shall be king over them; and they shall all have one shepherd. they shall also follow My judgments and observe My statutes, and do them. And they shall dwell in the land that I have given to Yaakov my servant, in which your fathers have dwelt and they shall dwell there, they and their children, and their children's children forever; and my servant David shall be their prince forever. Moreover, I will make a covenant of peace with them, it shall be an everlasting covenant with them, which I will give them; and I will multiply them and I will set my sanctuary in the midst of them forevermore. And my tabernacle shall be with them: and I will be their G-d and they will be my people. Then the nations shall know that I am the L-rd who sanctifies Israel, when My sanctuary will be in the midst of them forevermore.

If an individual fails to fulfill even one of these conditions, then he cannot be "The Messiah." A careful analysis of these criteria shows us that to date, no one has fulfilled every condition.

Certainly NOT Jesus.

11 comments:

Yehudi01 said...

My friend, have you been watching the situation between Russia and Georgia? If you watch the news here in the US, it is a different spin than if you watch the news coming out of Moscow. Their news reports are distorted and slanted according to their agenda. Thus it is with Jews For Judaism.

Just as you claim there's a mountain of evidence against Yeshua, I have discovered a mountain of evidence for Yeshua...in fact, proving his Messiahship.

You are my friend and my brother, and I hope we can have many discussions about this...but if not, then about Torah.

Papa Frank said...

The problem with this whole concept is seen in the opening section:

The Jewish tradition of "The Messiah" has its foundation in numerous biblical references, and understands "The Messiah" to be a human being - without any overtone of deity or divinity - who will bring about certain changes in the world and fulfill certain criteria before he can be acknowledged as "The Messiah".

Problem number one: as you stated here this is Jewish tradition and not absolute biblical truth.

Problem number two: there can be no argument that the greatest and most lasting change in our world has been brought by Jesus. There is no figure in history more recognized, whether you like it or not, than Jesus. Nobody that has caused so many events in any country you can name.

Problem number three: the onus is not on the Messiah to prove themselves. Do you think the Messiah answers to you? The Messiah IS and you choose to believe or not.

Bar Kochba said...

Papa Frank:

1) The Jewish people learnt the Torah in the Wilderness from G-d Himself. The Protestant concept of "sola scriptus", only the Scriptures, has no relevance in Judaism. According to Judaism, the Torah must be viewed through this lens. Moses received the Torah from Sinai, and then taught it to Joshua, who taught it to the elders who finally taught it from the nation. Our practices and beliefs do not come from learning about the Torah, like Christians, but come from G-d Himself, in whose "womb" we lived in for 40 years.

2) In Judaism, Jesus is irrelevant. The only reason why had to create such a site is because Jesus-freaks such as yourself keep on pushing him in our faces. We are not Christians. We don't care about Christianity. Missionaries won't leave us alone and close to 250 000 Jews worldwide have been duped, like our friend Daniel. The Torah speaks of a prophet who will perform miracles and lead people stray. HaShem is sending him to test us whether we love Him or not. The same with Jesus. Your argument could easily be turned upside down by saying that he is a test whether or not we will succumb to his evil, to his idolatry, may the name of the wicked rot. The Torah says that the Jews will go into exile and serve gods of wood and stone. Jews have been taken in by Islam, which bows to the kabaa stone in Mecca. Jews, such as Daniel, have become Christians, who pray to a dead man nailed to a 2 x 4. Our prophets and Sages said so. So it was.

3) You are wrong. There is no such thing as believing in a messiah or not. The coming of the messiah is self-evident. When the Moshiach will come, one will be able to look outside and see clearly the Messianic world. Is there world peace? Do all Jews live in Israel? Is there a Temple? Does the entire world recognize HaShem? If not, then the Messiah has not come. It is irrelevant if I believe or not. He is either here or he is not here.

Daniel: I would request that you explain why you see Jews for Judaism as slanted. Have you ever listened to the audio classes of Rabbi Tovia Singer, renowned counter-missionary. Did you get my e-mail? Please, Daniel. I love you as a fellow Jew. Give up this garbage.

Papa Frank said...

I'm still waiting for your answers on the last post.

Yehudi01 said...

Avi, I received your email, adn I emailed you back. I really appreciate the concern you show, and I care about you equally as much...however, I do take offense at the thought of being 'duped' and being a christian. I was not 'duped', since I would consider myself extremely intelligent, (IQ in the genius range), and came to this decision and conclusion after a year of intense study, prayer, and due diligence. I was not tricked or duped.

I pray that one day you will know what I know.

Ralph said...

Yehudi01
on August 20, 2008 at 8:19 PM
you said:-
"...however, I do take offense at the thought of being 'duped' and being a christian."

Would you care to 'let it all hang out', as it were, and tell what you think is wrong in being a Christian? A 'true' Christian that is.
I might add that there is no way you can offend me or hurt my feelings.

גילוי said...

Yehudi,

Please translate the following for me:

והביטו אלי, את אשר דקרו, וספדו עליו

These are three phrases that make a part of a very famous sentence in Christian proof-texts. Looking at the Hebrew, you can see that the Christian interpretation is a twisting of the plain reading.

If a person doesn't understand the 2nd phrase, the 3rd comes to clarify it, that it is a different direct object than the first phrase.

I sure hope you are not learning Hebrew grammar from Christians.

El-Shaddai-dad said...

Greetings, kindly hold thy sword:

I have been in the Valley of Vision and glean forth thy bones of the 4-fathers (Ruth) the Stone Throne. I rent the veil of Moses and Screen of Jacob, and raise Thy Hand across all lands and nations: heavens below and heavens above and the Heavens Heavens.

In revelations, elations, excitations, and edification to One and ALL “Alpha/Omega Lord of Lords, King of Kings and God of Gods” with reproof that he has arisen in the Bread of Life and that none have listened to his words, neither sought his counsel nor have followed his ways. Ezekiel 33-37, Rev. 10 “Thou Art Being Weighted In Thy Balance”: Seven words of thunder.

Blessings of the Ages, all is well in Love and Peace: Noe the hour and day. Eel: ∑Θ∑: Everlasting O’EVErlasting™, Psalms 29©

Blessings of the Ages, all is well in Love and Peace: Noe the hour and day. Eel: ∑Θ∑: Everlasting O’EVErlasting™, Psalms 29©

Lift-up Thy CUP thy VOice and dew visit read and teach all ye nations: Bowl ye heavens and rain down righteousness.

I AM that I AM, the Ancient of Days.

HisName said...

Fact1.
There is only ONE GOD. Hashim is God!
Fact2.
He alone chooses.
Fact3.
No man chooses God.
Fact4.
Hashim is Merciful and Kind
Fact5.
Hashim is harsh and unforgiving
fact6.
Hashim sends messengers of evil
and Messengers of Righteousness.
Fact7.
Hashim binds wicked and gives freedom to the righteous (no man makes himself righteous).
Fact8.
It is by Hashim's mercy that a man be called righteous.
Fact9.
Hashim provides the wicked thought and the righteous thought.
Fact10.
Hashim knows all things before and after.
Fact11.
You will not be able to convert a Jew to a Gentile. (If you can then he or she was never a Jew)
Fact12.
Some parts of the new testament are true and some are deceptions.
Fact13.
If the testaments of Jesus are true then he himself was a Jewish convert.(Baptism is A Jewish tradition for the convert) Taking away the ability for the Jews to reject him based on "The Jew or not Jew question".
Fact14.
Gentiles came before Jews. And love came before the law. If Hashim tells a man to give him an offering how is it possible for that man to offer?( I don't recall Hashim telling Abel to sacrifice to him his finest lamb) And if a man's car doesn't exceed 45 miles per hour then what Good is a 45 mile per hour speed limit to that man?(refer to fact10)
Hashim gave this law to this people for a reason. The people did not know and although many still may not know he has made a strong Choice and no man can reverse it. What is a law to a Jew is a teaching to a Gentile.
Fact15.
There will come a day when there is no Jew or Gentile... they shall Join. Oh Mighty Hashim he hath given laws that were broken before they had even been revealed. Every man is therefore GUILTY as charged.
Oh beloved learn from this people! They to shall learn from you!

In time they will learn about Jesus and why what he is very very important. Do not concern yourselves with Christianity as a traditional religion. But do read the words OF THIS MAN!
Do not be concerned about the the way in which Christians have made a deity of him he was not a Christian. He too knew he was GUILTY AS CHARGED!

Moses led the people in his presence.

This man has lead his people in his absence and they are a rare
people and are not Christian Jew or Muslim but they shall join with the Jew.

I believe Hashim is sending yet another surely all the signs had not been fulfilled during the time of Jesus. He says himself " when the son of man comes he will not find many righteous in the world".

Son of man? Hashim referred to Ezekiel and all those who are born and chosen of man as SONS OF MEN.

Open your eyes and see the awesome power being wielded in the north. And how the Great power and riches are being distributed to the enemy.
See how she trembles in fear afraid to take sides and afraid to condemn those in the north. See how she is being pimped by foreign nations. See how she is thrown in the mix on every topic of war! who the F*** is Nicolas Sarkozy! He uses her as a threat when she has not asked his inquiry! Between a rock and a hard place she shall be!

HisName said...

OHH! Hashim the Merciful and Harsh. From you comes Condemnation and Exaltation! He who choses the crack whore and condemns the high and self-righteous. They (I)have not known your ways.

They (I) have passed judgment on thy people and have not yet known the complete list of thine chosen.

Blessed is he who has received the written law on tablets of stone and on hearts of stone!

Blessed is he who in which the law has been written on his heart of hearts! For to love thine neighbor is the only requirement for him and by the mercy of Hashim shall these chosen perform it.

And blessed is he who's heart of stone shall be turn to a heart of flesh.

For the Jew to carry a chip on his shoulder and say... "Hashim has Chosen US" and yet assume he has not made any other choices, YOU SHALL BE HUMBLED! And you shall cling to a foreigner! And you shall say He has loved this people too! And you shall say Hashim's choice is prime and lofty and you shall cry for them!

When we shall see the congregation at the place of the chief and every worthless tradition forgotten then we shall see Moshaich.

When all thine brethren are willing to die for you and you are willing to die for all thine brethren then Moshiach shall be revealed.

He shall come and you shall lay your eyes on him but you shall say where is he? He shall do his bidding in secrecy! He shall not go out and call his name Moshiach!
He is a wanted man before he comes!

The world has condemned him already and he is called Anti-Christ and Myth and False Prophet.

Yeah they have already condemned him before he has stepped his foot in his place.

He shall have the gift of gab!
He shall perceive deception with great accuracy.

He shall not open his mouth on his own accord but he shall Glorify Hashim in the sight of men!

He is already condemned!
He shall go as a spy!
He shall be amongst his people and they shall not know it.

If it shall be exposed then Hashim shall expose him at his time.

Those who seek him condemn him because they do not know what to look for. There expectations are distorted.

Moshiach now! Moshiach now! Moshiach now?

Hashim NOW! Hashim NOW!.
HASHIM NOW!

And Hashim shall Glorify him!

If he promotes himself in any way he is not MOSHIACH!

He has a name and his people to shall have a name! And no other man shall know it.
And the name of the people shall be KING OF KINGS AND LORDS OF LORDS.

HisName said...

First of all, he must be Jewish - "...you may appoint a king over you, whom the L-rd your G-d shall choose: one from among your brethren shall you set as king over you." (Deuteronomy 17:15)

Oh again the Jew is Gods only Choice and the Jew is Only brother to the Jew. You are in violation!
I think there is more to read in
(Deuteronomy)regarding this.

He must be a member of the tribe of Judah - "The staff shall not depart from Judah, nor the scepter from between his feet..." (Genesis 49:10)

To be a member of the tribe of Judah, the person must have a biological father who is a member of the tribe of Judah.

Violation! It could never be proven whether or not some one is a biological descendant of David.
He is condemned already! Proof can not come by scientific means but by deeds and or events besides I doubt he would try to prove anything.

Wow! You have not understood.

He must be a direct male descendant of King David and King Solomon, his son -

"And when your days (David) are fulfilled, and you shall sleep with your fathers, I will set up your seed after you, who shall issue from your bowels, and I will establish his kingdom. He shall build a house for my name, and I will make firm the throne of his kingdom forever..." (2 Samuel 7:12 - 13)
What about this?

11 "Yes, take silver and gold, and make crowns, and set them on the head of Joshua the son of Jehozadak, the high priest;
12 and speak to him, saying, 'Thus says the LORD of Hosts, "Behold, the man whose name is the Branch: and he shall grow up out of his place; and he shall build the temple of the LORD;
13 even he shall build the temple of the LORD; and he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule on his throne; (and he shall be a priest on his throne;) and the counsel of peace shall be between them both."'..."

Hmm? David a priest? Judah A Priest? Ezekiel also points the the Prince dealing with Priestly duties!

Hmm? well I know we are all descendants of Adam and still yet Noah butuum ... You have condemned Moshiac already. I thought the Levites had this duty? Hmmm I thought Hashim ordained the Levites for this. Oh... is that why Moshiac is the only one that can enter the temple at will?

Behold, I send My messenger, and he shall clear the way before Me; and the Lord, whom ye seek, will suddenly come to His temple, and the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in, behold, he cometh, saith the LORD of hosts.
But who may abide the day of his coming? And who shall stand when he appeareth? For he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap;
And he shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver; and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver; (and there shall be they that shall offer unto the LORD offerings in righteousness.) Malachi 3:1-3

Know then that I have sent this commandment unto you, that My covenant might be with Levi, saith the LORD of hosts.
My covenant was with him of life and peace, and I gave them to him, and of fear, and he feared Me, and was afraid of My name.
The law of truth was in his mouth, and unrighteousness was not found in his lips; he walked with Me in peace and uprightness, and did turn many away from iniquity. Malachi 2:4-6

He will rule at a time when the Jewish people will observe G-d's commandments - "My servant David (Beloved)shall be king over them; and they shall all have one shepherd. They shall follow My ordinances and be careful to observe My statutes." (Ezekiel 37:24)


Yes! Because currently the "Jewish" Ordinances and Statues CAN NOT be followed" Hashim Clearly Gave some laws that could not and should not be followed. If transgression of the law is sin brings forth condemnation then we all fail! The law of Mercy though, has not yet been revealed. This law superseded all laws.
This law came before all laws and will abide forever when all other laws are abolished. The only laws that will abide forever are the laws that Hashim himself Keeps!I battle with whether LOVE OR MERCY is the master (law if Hashim himself preforms it then IT IS LAW), But From these shall all everlasting laws come!

He must gather the Jewish people from exile and return them to Israel -"And he shall set up a banner for the nations, and shall assemble the (OUTCASTS OF ISRAEL), (and) gather together the (DISPERSED FROM JUDAH) from the four corners of the earth." (Isaiah 11:12)

Thats two different people. You know the outcasts? The ones all over the world who are rejected by Israel? Who must convert to make to get a F****** paper from the Rabbi so that can make Aliyah?
Yes they have outcasted the people!
OHHH HASHIM IS STRONG!

As the host of heaven cannot be numbered, neither the sand of the sea measured; so will I multiply the seed of David(BELOVED) My servant, and the Levites that minister unto Me.
And the word of the LORD came to Jeremiah, saying:
'Considerest thou not what this people have spoken, saying: (The two families which the LORD did choose), He hath cast them off? Jeremiah 33:22-24

OHHH BE AFRAID! FEAR HIM! INCREDIBLE! OH MY GOD!

I (think) the Tanak says that the Jews are supposed to treat the stranger as one of their own.

GLORY TO HASHIM! AMAZING INCREDIBLE
INVINCIBLE WONDERFUL OUTSTANDING WOW !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Forgive my typos EXCITEMENT WITH IN ME!
MERCIFUL! HE IS MERCIFUL! I will never cry again because THE JEW WITH THE CHIP ON HIS SHOULDER IS CHOSEN!
UNBELIEVABLE!
UNDENIABLE!